Wanted to welcome both of you to the blog. Thanks for your comments. I hope you’ll stick around and comment on other posts, as well.

steve

I am not a pastor or in any ministry role in my current church.

Previously the church I had been in for 5 years or so was largely impersonal and although i was part of the music ministry team and involved in descipleship training it was still not a ‘home church’ to me. I changed churches about 6 months ago and the church I attend now is much more focused on small, connected groups supporting each other and ‘pastoral care’ comming from that framework rather than the one pastoral team solely caring for the whole church.

Both churches are of roughly the same size, my new church seems to be growing, ive only been there a few months so im not sure but my old one is shrinking.

Ive deliberately not mentioned denominations as both churches are focused on the Word rather than emotions even though one is pentocostal and the other is more traditional.

MDM

I think ded and Erica did a fine job answering Gordon’s final question, so I’ll leave it at that. In case you still want more information on my story specifically, Gordon, allow me to link to two posts I wrote last July on the simple church concept. The first one tells a bit of my story, and the second tells some of the conclusions I came to and how it was playing out at that time in the fellowship here.

What Is Simple Church? (part 1)
What Is Simple Church? (part 2)

Gordon, I want to echo the thoughts of others here in speaking my tremendous respect for you and appreciation for your participation in this conversation. We all are blessed to have you here!!

I’ll try to post again soon, and we can have more dialogue.

steve

I look forward to future discussions.

“It isn’t as much that we each have stories of disenfranchisement with the organized church, but that something in our hearts has insisted we seek the answer to a burning question: Should the constraints on belief which seem to occur within an organization be removed, what then? I am trying to articulate that which has motivated me (and I think Raborn and Steve would concur) is more than simply being disgruntled at some other man’s position, therefore, I have taken my ball and left the field!

My comments regarding experience with the pastoral position weren’t meant to sound like a knee-jerk reaction. I was only hoping to add a view point from someone who has never been in that position.

I couldn’t agree more with what DED has said here.

My comment is that the issue of the role of a pastor is a side component of a larger perspective. Before I share that, however, I would like to affirm that you, Gordon, seem particularly suited both to your calling and to fulfilling those responsibilities with much integrity. You are an encouragement to me regarding the faithfulness of God.

The larger perspective to which I refer is built from the question, “What constitutes a mature body?” Certainly the pastoral gifting is a key component of what God intended in His plan for disciples. Raborn, Steve and I are among a number of people internationally who are on a journey to discover exactly what might be done instead of the institutional organization. Our goal is to see the most grow into the highest of God’s will. A goal not unlike your own, I am sure.

It isn’t as much that we each have stories of disenfranchisement with the organized church, but that something in our hearts has insisted we seek the answer to a burning question: Should the constraints on belief which seem to occur within an organization be removed, what then? I am trying to articulate that which has motivated me (and I think Raborn and Steve would concur) is more than simply being disgruntled at some other man’s position, therefore, I have taken my ball and left the field!

You mention that you see no mandate in Scripture to stop doing the organized church that has stood for centuries. I must question whether or not there was ever a mandate in Scripture to create what exists today. I respect the millions of Christians everywhere who accept the institution. I highly esteem men such as yourself who fulfill their responsibilities with so much love for God and His word. (I understand much of what you go through, I was an associate pastor within an organized body for twelve years.)

But the overall search remains, what level of maturity in Christ might be lived if individuals took personal responsiblitiy for their lives before God and lived within a community of deep love for one another as the means of support and encouragement to be so responsible?

The organized model appears to be failing on a number of levels in supporting such a quest. One can work within the current model to bring about this level of communion with God and others; you are an admirable example of such effort. Or, the choice exists to conduct the search without social boundaries created by traditions.
There is Proverb that says every man is right in his own eyes. Surely you would not pursue what you do in the service of God and the fulfillment of the the things in your heart for His people if you believed them wrong. So it is that I feel I must see what life in the spirit is to be lived ourside the cultural status quo.

I appreciate deeply that you would enter into such a thorough discussions of this nature with Steve and Raborn without condemnation! The body of Christ needs more men like you.

Steve, I appreciate your words of affirmation. As I have spent some time past the fifty mark, I have accepted that I am approaching “elder” status. (snicker) My, my what an interesting state this aging is! Please know I only seek to know you in the spirit of Christ. I would caution that you not see me as anything more than the sinner I am, saved by grace. If my experiences with God provide you an illumination of the Truth in His heart, then I am glad, as my life has taken on meaning through Him.