Comments on: How Do We Measure Maturity? http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/ Random discussions about various topics, with an emphasis on simple church and other out-of-the-box thoughts. Tue, 09 Mar 2010 03:20:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Theological Musings » Q and A about Simple Church (part 2) http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/comment-page-1/#comment-2001 Theological Musings » Q and A about Simple Church (part 2) Sat, 13 Jan 2007 16:59:57 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/#comment-2001 [...] In part 1, I dealt with the first of three questions from Gordon Cloud regarding some differences in the simpler approach to church “structure”, vis-à-vis more traditional, conventional models of church administration. In this post, I would like to move on to the second and third questions. To review, the three questions were: [...] [...] In part 1, I dealt with the first of three questions from Gordon Cloud regarding some differences in the simpler approach to church “structure”, vis-à-vis more traditional, conventional models of church administration. In this post, I would like to move on to the second and third questions. To review, the three questions were: [...]

]]> By: Theological Musings » Q and A about Simple Church (part 1) http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/comment-page-1/#comment-1937 Theological Musings » Q and A about Simple Church (part 1) Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:17:04 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/#comment-1937 [...] In my post about maturity, way back in the end of 2006 , my dear friend and blogging buddy Gordon Cloud asked some questions about simple church that I never got around to answering because of the holidays. I’m finally going to take the time to address them here, and open it up for further discussion, rebuttal, etc. by Gordon or anyone else who cares to weigh in. [...] [...] In my post about maturity, way back in the end of 2006 , my dear friend and blogging buddy Gordon Cloud asked some questions about simple church that I never got around to answering because of the holidays. I’m finally going to take the time to address them here, and open it up for further discussion, rebuttal, etc. by Gordon or anyone else who cares to weigh in. [...]

]]> By: Gordon Cloud http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/comment-page-1/#comment-1685 Gordon Cloud Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:29:13 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/#comment-1685 Thanks, Steve. Actually I was responding to this statement that you made. <i>Again, it’s not anything that is wrong with you. It’s not that you’re not capable of preaching every week to that body. You obviously are! But if you’re going to see that as your primary responsibility, then what’s to share?</i> Later, Dude! Have a good one. ;-) Thanks, Steve. Actually I was responding to this statement that you made.

Again, it’s not anything that is wrong with you. It’s not that you’re not capable of preaching every week to that body. You obviously are! But if you’re going to see that as your primary responsibility, then what’s to share?

Later, Dude! Have a good one. ;-)

]]> By: Steve Sensenig http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/comment-page-1/#comment-1675 Steve Sensenig Sat, 23 Dec 2006 23:47:14 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/#comment-1675 <strong>Gordon</strong>, you wrote: <em>I am not so enamored with my own preaching that I feel the need to speak in every service.</em> I absolutely did not think this in any way! I think I said that the <strong>system</strong> would not allow it. It was not personal at all. As a side note to this aspect, I did comment favorably to Christy that I had noticed in the Sunday evening service that you did not feel the need to have a sermon on top of the special musical presentation. So I definitely don't see in you "the need to speak in every service." We've gotten quite a bit involved in tangential topics, and I feel like I'm not taking the time to really deal with them efficiently. I promise we'll talk this out in more detail so that we understand each other better. For now, have a wonderful Christmas and enjoy your time away! steve :) Gordon, you wrote: I am not so enamored with my own preaching that I feel the need to speak in every service.

I absolutely did not think this in any way! I think I said that the system would not allow it. It was not personal at all.

As a side note to this aspect, I did comment favorably to Christy that I had noticed in the Sunday evening service that you did not feel the need to have a sermon on top of the special musical presentation. So I definitely don’t see in you “the need to speak in every service.”

We’ve gotten quite a bit involved in tangential topics, and I feel like I’m not taking the time to really deal with them efficiently. I promise we’ll talk this out in more detail so that we understand each other better.

For now, have a wonderful Christmas and enjoy your time away!

steve :)

]]> By: Steve Sensenig http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/comment-page-1/#comment-1673 Steve Sensenig Sat, 23 Dec 2006 22:57:58 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/#comment-1673 Well said, <strong>ded</strong>. And a very merry Christmas to you and Mrs. ded and all the (not so) little ded-ites ;) hehe Maybe we'll see you at the Franklin's tonight?? Well said, ded. And a very merry Christmas to you and Mrs. ded and all the (not so) little ded-ites ;) hehe Maybe we’ll see you at the Franklin’s tonight??

]]> By: ded http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/comment-page-1/#comment-1671 ded Sat, 23 Dec 2006 16:18:03 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/#comment-1671 Back to the idea of maturity: I lay awake this morning about 2:30 pondering many things and had this thought: Abiding in Christ equals maturity. It isn't that maturity is measured or achieved or even maintained. We purpose to be at rest in Him, period. He takes care of everything else. Back to the idea of maturity:

I lay awake this morning about 2:30 pondering many things and had this thought:
Abiding in Christ equals maturity.

It isn’t that maturity is measured or achieved or even maintained.

We purpose to be at rest in Him, period. He takes care of everything else.

]]> By: Gordon Cloud http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/comment-page-1/#comment-1664 Gordon Cloud Sat, 23 Dec 2006 06:12:46 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/#comment-1664 Steve, greetings from Florida. In response to your last question, I'm not sure that the parable of the lost sheep is a fitting analogy for pastoring. As I recall, that is a parable of the kingdom of heaven. Given our differing viewpoints of eschatology, we probably won't agree on the interpretation of that either. :-) However, you bring up a valid point concerning relationships. I have not said, and certainly have not intended to imply that pastors are not to have a relationship with their congregation. In fact, the opposite is true, we should seek to relate to those in the church as much as possible. But the fact is, you can have a close, even intimate, relationship and still not be aware of the full extent of their spiritual maturity. I also would like to respond to an earlier comment of yours to the effect that given my priority on preaching that it may be difficult for me to share that responsibility, let me assure you that I wish I could take the study and preparation time that I have each week and only invest it into one sermon instead of three or four. I would be more than happy to share the responsibility of the pulpit with others. (I think I even have a track record that demonstrates this, but you aren't aware of that.) I am not so enamored with my own preaching that I feel the need to speak in every service. See, it's 1:10 A.M. I can't sleep, even in Florida. :-) Steve, greetings from Florida. In response to your last question, I’m not sure that the parable of the lost sheep is a fitting analogy for pastoring. As I recall, that is a parable of the kingdom of heaven. Given our differing viewpoints of eschatology, we probably won’t agree on the interpretation of that either. :-)

However, you bring up a valid point concerning relationships. I have not said, and certainly have not intended to imply that pastors are not to have a relationship with their congregation. In fact, the opposite is true, we should seek to relate to those in the church as much as possible. But the fact is, you can have a close, even intimate, relationship and still not be aware of the full extent of their spiritual maturity.

I also would like to respond to an earlier comment of yours to the effect that given my priority on preaching that it may be difficult for me to share that responsibility, let me assure you that I wish I could take the study and preparation time that I have each week and only invest it into one sermon instead of three or four. I would be more than happy to share the responsibility of the pulpit with others. (I think I even have a track record that demonstrates this, but you aren’t aware of that.) I am not so enamored with my own preaching that I feel the need to speak in every service.

See, it’s 1:10 A.M. I can’t sleep, even in Florida. :-)

]]> By: Steve Sensenig http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/comment-page-1/#comment-1658 Steve Sensenig Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:28:39 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/#comment-1658 <strong>Jen</strong>, thanks for reading! Nice to have you commenting over here. I definitely write a lot more here than I do on HSB! ;) <strong>Gordon</strong>, another thought that came to my mind about this idea of pastors knowing the spiritual condition: When the shepherd left the 99 to go find the 1, do you think it's just because he counted and saw one was missing? Or did he know his sheep that well? In other words, is that story just about keeping the numbers up, or does it imply a relationship? Jen, thanks for reading! Nice to have you commenting over here. I definitely write a lot more here than I do on HSB! ;)

Gordon, another thought that came to my mind about this idea of pastors knowing the spiritual condition: When the shepherd left the 99 to go find the 1, do you think it’s just because he counted and saw one was missing? Or did he know his sheep that well? In other words, is that story just about keeping the numbers up, or does it imply a relationship?

]]> By: Steve Sensenig http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/comment-page-1/#comment-1657 Steve Sensenig Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:25:23 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/#comment-1657 <strong>Alan</strong>, that's only because I haven't yet taken the time to...(hanging head in shame)...Google Gilmour's name to find out who he is! <strong>Gordon</strong>, I'll be waiting ;) Alan, that’s only because I haven’t yet taken the time to…(hanging head in shame)…Google Gilmour’s name to find out who he is!

Gordon, I’ll be waiting ;)

]]> By: Alan Knox http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/comment-page-1/#comment-1656 Alan Knox Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:09:32 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2006/12/20/how-do-we-measure-maturity/#comment-1656 <b>Gordon,</b> You asked Steve about responsibilites for a pastor. I would consider 1 Peter 5:1-4 and Acts 20:28-35 to list biblical requirements of elders. You also asked where Scripture mandates multiple elders. Scripture does not mandate elders at all--one or multiple. When elders are mentioned in Scripture, they are mentioned in the plural, even in the context of one church. I'm glad to hear that the people there consider the church more than the one hour, Sunday morning meeting. That is certainly not normal in the churches that I have been part of. <b>Steve,</b> Thank you for answering my question about 'dvorak'. But, you didn't answer my question about David Gilmour. -Alan Gordon,

You asked Steve about responsibilites for a pastor. I would consider 1 Peter 5:1-4 and Acts 20:28-35 to list biblical requirements of elders.

You also asked where Scripture mandates multiple elders. Scripture does not mandate elders at all–one or multiple. When elders are mentioned in Scripture, they are mentioned in the plural, even in the context of one church.

I’m glad to hear that the people there consider the church more than the one hour, Sunday morning meeting. That is certainly not normal in the churches that I have been part of.

Steve,

Thank you for answering my question about ‘dvorak’. But, you didn’t answer my question about David Gilmour.

-Alan

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