Comments on: Christian Political Action and Double Standards http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/ Random discussions about various topics, with an emphasis on simple church and other out-of-the-box thoughts. Sun, 21 Aug 2011 06:17:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: alaçat? oteller http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-46526 alaçat? oteller Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:31:32 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/#comment-46526 Alan, I think you are correct on both points. Thanks for the comment. Alan, I think you are correct on both points. Thanks for the comment.

]]> By: Steve Sensenig http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-5111 Steve Sensenig Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:59:40 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/#comment-5111 <strong>Housewife</strong>, welcome to the blog. I recognize that the admission that there isn't a Starbucks nearby is frightening. In fact, it's hard to believe that here in the US of A, one could even make such a bold claim. But I assure you that I, and my claim, are for real :) Housewife, welcome to the blog. I recognize that the admission that there isn’t a Starbucks nearby is frightening. In fact, it’s hard to believe that here in the US of A, one could even make such a bold claim.

But I assure you that I, and my claim, are for real :)

]]> By: Housewife http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-5109 Housewife Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:18:45 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/#comment-5109 Wow. I'm floored. I'll be reading the rest of your blog over the next few days. Very insightful. I think the only thing that frightens me about your blog is the admission that there isn't a Starbucks nearby. Are you for real? Wow.

I’m floored.

I’ll be reading the rest of your blog over the next few days.

Very insightful.

I think the only thing that frightens me about your blog is the admission that there isn’t a Starbucks nearby.

Are you for real?

]]> By: JP Manzi http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-4339 JP Manzi Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:13:01 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/#comment-4339 Yes, I do have something to say......AMEN! I could not agree with you more. I have often wondered why us christians fight for the things we do in the political scene. Yes, I do have something to say……AMEN!

I could not agree with you more. I have often wondered why us christians fight for the things we do in the political scene.

]]> By: Steve Sensenig http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-4323 Steve Sensenig Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:48:36 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/#comment-4323 <strong>marty</strong>, not convoluted at all! I appreciate your thoughts here. <em>We aren’t going to really reach the lost by making them subject to Christian political leaders. We need to be reaching people with the love of Christ. We need to demonstrate that we have something different, and better!</em> That's a great way to express it. And you are so right! marty, not convoluted at all! I appreciate your thoughts here.

We aren’t going to really reach the lost by making them subject to Christian political leaders. We need to be reaching people with the love of Christ. We need to demonstrate that we have something different, and better!

That’s a great way to express it. And you are so right!

]]> By: marty http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-4321 marty Thu, 15 Mar 2007 19:55:34 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/#comment-4321 While I'm glad to be a citizen of the USA I'm even more glad to be a citizen of Heaven! I think the goals that most of the Christian PACs have are honorable, I don't think the methods are correct. This past Sunday our Sr Pastor spoke on the persecution of Christians in America. I must say, most of what was spoken of is not persecution, perhaps inconvenience or maybe disdain for Christianity but not true persecution. I found this to be somewhat manipulative just as some of the aforementioned methods. I fully agree with Tony's earlier comment "Frankly, nations aren’t Christian. People are. Fighting to make this a Christian nation is to woefully miss the point." We aren't going to really reach the lost by making them subject to Christian political leaders. We need to be reaching people with the love of Christ. We need to demonstrate that we have something different, and better! Paul never tried to overthrow the Roman government, he accepted it for what it was and work with it, through it, around it. Having a Christian government doesn't make people christians. Sinners will be sinners, they're actually carrying out their "job descriptions." Our Christian freedoms and principles aren't really provided for or protected by our civil government; it doesn't really have that power. Sure, it's nice to have the government behind you, but I think maybe that has been a contributing factor in the weakening of the Church over time. Hope my ramblings aren't too convoluted! In Him, -marty While I’m glad to be a citizen of the USA I’m even more glad to be a citizen of Heaven!

I think the goals that most of the Christian PACs have are honorable, I don’t think the methods are correct. This past Sunday our Sr Pastor spoke on the persecution of Christians in America. I must say, most of what was spoken of is not persecution, perhaps inconvenience or maybe disdain for Christianity but not true persecution. I found this to be somewhat manipulative just as some of the aforementioned methods.

I fully agree with Tony’s earlier comment “Frankly, nations aren’t Christian. People are. Fighting to make this a Christian nation is to woefully miss the point.” We aren’t going to really reach the lost by making them subject to Christian political leaders. We need to be reaching people with the love of Christ. We need to demonstrate that we have something different, and better!

Paul never tried to overthrow the Roman government, he accepted it for what it was and work with it, through it, around it. Having a Christian government doesn’t make people christians. Sinners will be sinners, they’re actually carrying out their “job descriptions.”

Our Christian freedoms and principles aren’t really provided for or protected by our civil government; it doesn’t really have that power. Sure, it’s nice to have the government behind you, but I think maybe that has been a contributing factor in the weakening of the Church over time.

Hope my ramblings aren’t too convoluted!
In Him,
-marty

]]> By: Steve Sensenig http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-4312 Steve Sensenig Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:26:58 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/#comment-4312 <strong>David Riggins</strong>, I agree with you. There is definitely an Old Testament mindset to political action, in my opinion. I think this is demonstrated very clearly in the push to have the 10 Commandments visible in courthouses, etc. Somehow, I just really think that the Kingdom of God operates on a wholly different plane and perspective. I think that's exactly why people rejected Jesus when He preached that kingdom. David Riggins, I agree with you. There is definitely an Old Testament mindset to political action, in my opinion. I think this is demonstrated very clearly in the push to have the 10 Commandments visible in courthouses, etc. Somehow, I just really think that the Kingdom of God operates on a wholly different plane and perspective. I think that’s exactly why people rejected Jesus when He preached that kingdom.

]]> By: David Riggins http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-4310 David Riggins Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:10:55 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/#comment-4310 I get frustrated with Christian organizations trying to de-secularize the general public through the invocation of law. Like Tony said, it's people who are Christian (or not) not nations. To attempt to create moral behavior through law is to fall back on the Old Testement. God proved it didn't work then, so why would a group of people who claim they are saved by God's grace think that banning gay marriage or abortion or the issue du jour, would somehow change society (or keep it from changing)? Sigh. And all those people further alienated from God through the mis-guided actions of religious zealots. We may as well just go about hacking peoples ears off, but wait, that's been tried, hasn't it? I get frustrated with Christian organizations trying to de-secularize the general public through the invocation of law. Like Tony said, it’s people who are Christian (or not) not nations. To attempt to create moral behavior through law is to fall back on the Old Testement. God proved it didn’t work then, so why would a group of people who claim they are saved by God’s grace think that banning gay marriage or abortion or the issue du jour, would somehow change society (or keep it from changing)?

Sigh. And all those people further alienated from God through the mis-guided actions of religious zealots. We may as well just go about hacking peoples ears off, but wait, that’s been tried, hasn’t it?

]]> By: Steve Sensenig http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-4306 Steve Sensenig Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:20:35 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/#comment-4306 <strong>Eric</strong>, I understand now. Thanks for clarifying. Yes, Tony's comment hits it right on the head, doesn't it? Tony's good with stuff like that! ;) Eric, I understand now. Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, Tony’s comment hits it right on the head, doesn’t it? Tony’s good with stuff like that! ;)

]]> By: Eric Holcombe http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-4305 Eric Holcombe Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:14:09 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/03/14/christian-political-action-and-double-standards/#comment-4305 Steve, I think Tony's statement <i>"Frankly, nations aren’t Christian. People are. Fighting to make this a Christian nation is to woefully miss the point"</i> is a better way to summarize what I meant. Every government in history has turned from God either initially or eventually. America is no different. We are a very young country, relatively speaking. We happen to have enjoyed one of the longest running time periods for Christians to worship without persecution. I believe that consequence is due to our foundation. Our freedoms that were sought initially in America seeking after God, must necessarily allow us the freedom to deny Him. Unless we are a theocratic state (which is partly why the pilgrims left England), the resulting equilibrium to be expected is moral relativism. All beliefs recognized equally, etc. "You can't legislate morality" is a popular saying these days, yet that is exactly what legislation does. The question is, whose morality is legislated? How much is to be tolerated in the name of equality and freedom? I believe the fear factor comes from the realization that our inherent freedoms cannot guarantee a Christian utopia. We are trying to point to the beliefs of the founders as boilerplate for the country, but in the end we make our own decisions in freedom - good or bad. Christians cannot legislate their morality without also accepting the morality of unbelievers. It is a lowest common denominator scenario. God's providence is extended to believers and transcends man-made governments. America's will come to an end as well, but I don't think AFA boycotting businesses will enable anyone to see that. I think this "battle" extends into preterist or dominionist vs. dispensationalist as well - as they are opposed as to the role(s) of America in prophecy. But that's another topic. :) Oh, it's the same first amendment that allows Ann to vilify anyone she wants without repercussion that allows us to criticize her without repercussion. See what I mean about the level of offense? Steve,

I think Tony’s statement

“Frankly, nations aren’t Christian. People are. Fighting to make this a Christian nation is to woefully miss the point”

is a better way to summarize what I meant. Every government in history has turned from God either initially or eventually. America is no different. We are a very young country, relatively speaking. We happen to have enjoyed one of the longest running time periods for Christians to worship without persecution. I believe that consequence is due to our foundation.

Our freedoms that were sought initially in America seeking after God, must necessarily allow us the freedom to deny Him. Unless we are a theocratic state (which is partly why the pilgrims left England), the resulting equilibrium to be expected is moral relativism. All beliefs recognized equally, etc. “You can’t legislate morality” is a popular saying these days, yet that is exactly what legislation does. The question is, whose morality is legislated? How much is to be tolerated in the name of equality and freedom?

I believe the fear factor comes from the realization that our inherent freedoms cannot guarantee a Christian utopia. We are trying to point to the beliefs of the founders as boilerplate for the country, but in the end we make our own decisions in freedom – good or bad. Christians cannot legislate their morality without also accepting the morality of unbelievers. It is a lowest common denominator scenario. God’s providence is extended to believers and transcends man-made governments. America’s will come to an end as well, but I don’t think AFA boycotting businesses will enable anyone to see that.

I think this “battle” extends into preterist or dominionist vs. dispensationalist as well – as they are opposed as to the role(s) of America in prophecy. But that’s another topic. :)

Oh, it’s the same first amendment that allows Ann to vilify anyone she wants without repercussion that allows us to criticize her without repercussion.
See what I mean about the level of offense?

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