ost of you who read this blog on a regular basis have seen glimpses into some of my journey. And you probably know that at some point in the past, I was involved in vocational ministry. Much of what I write about when I reference the conventional model of church (or “institutional church”, aka IC, as I sometimes refer to it as) is far from theoretical. It’s based on my own experiences in various positions and on both sides of the “desk”, so to speak.
In the past, I was on the “pastoral staff” of four different churches, and served in other paid capacities (mostly related to music) in a handful of others, as well. The moves were mostly geographical, and not just because I was “church-hopping”.
My first pastoral position was part-time, and I eventually left that position for a full-time position in a different church in a different state. Then, it was off to seminary, which included a move to a different state about 24 hours’ drive away, so once again a change. I didn’t immediately join a staff when I went to seminary, but eventually found myself once again on pastoral staff.
During that position, sin in my life caused it all (including my marriage) to fall apart, and I left seminary and vocational ministry for a number of years, turning to computer software development for my income. My last position came several years later in the form of a part-time position in yet another location altogether.
One of the things I remember very vividly when I was a young pastor was the advice of the gentleman who was my senior pastor at the time. He advised me not to get close to the people in our congregation, but to maintain a certain amount of separation from them. He even went so far as to name the names of specific people that would end up “stabbing me in the back” if I got too close in friendship to them.
I discovered at that time how lonely it could be “at the top” of the hierarchical system (even though I wasn’t the senior pastor, I still viewed myself as being part of “the top”). And if I could go back and do it differently, I certainly would. I would have taken the risk of building genuine relationships. I would have not listened to the advice that was given to me to seclude myself “at the top” and hold my brothers and sisters at arms’ length. That’s hindsight, though. At the time, I took the route of loneliness and isolation, as have many other pastors.
But even more lonely than the pastors, sometimes, and certainly more overlooked in this concern, are the wives of pastors. I saw this when I was in the ministry, and watched as the ministry took its toll on the wives behind the men up front.
My lovely wife has recently written a post about this topic, based on some recent news articles. I would encourage you to go to her blog and read “The Calling“. She offers some good thoughts on what those within the conventional system can do to help alleviate this problem. Here’s a quote to whet your appetite:
I don’t know the personal situations of the families that we hear of in the news, but I do believe it is a sad commentary for Christians to have a person hiding behind the persona of a pastor’s wife, but dying inside for a lack of true companionship, relationships and love.
Go read the whole thing and see what you think.
Until next time,
steve 
I remember myself as a 25yr old assistant pastor being told by my senior pastors wife not to get to close to the congregation and she reprimanded my wife for making a friend in the congregation. 11 years on, those Pastors no longer talk to us as we left their denomination, but that friend my wife made is still her friend
Oh Steve, unfortunately I have heard the very same thing more than once
… and it is lonely at the “top” for the men AND for the women.
One thing that Brandon and I have been intentional about is being real, being genuine, and not holding people at arm’s length. Many people do not know how to take this, unfortunately. I think for so many years they have experienced pastors that are not real that when they encounter us they’re taken a bit off guard, and that’s a good thing! We’ve even been asked how to be real, how to be genuine and still minister to others by a dear friend that’s also a pastor.
Unfortunately (I keep using that word
), our being real does get us hurt, but that’s okay. God uses that hurt to grow us and teach us how to comfort people in the same way that we have been comforted. I’m not going to allow other people’s behavior and perceptions of who I’m supposed to be change who I am – I’m honest and transparent, sometimes to a fault 
Christy said in her article, “I do believe it is a sad commentary for Christians to have a person hiding behind the persona of a pastor’s wife, but dying inside for a lack of true companionship, relationships and love.” … I do find that sad as well
.
It’s so freeing to be real and genuine……
~Heather
Steve,
Yes, this philosophy has been adopted throughout much of the evangelical church.
But it doesn’t seem to fit with Jesus’ model. The emphasis on community in the New Testament would seem to require a different approach. This distance between pastor and people carries more risk than the risk of being open and transparent.
The only solution is for more and more leaders to model “a more excellent way.”
God Bless,
Rod
Rod,
This distance between pastor and people carries more risk than the risk of being open and transparent.
Yes, this is so true. How do you handle this in your particular ministry position?
Heather,
Unfortunately (I keep using that word
)….
“You keep using that word. I do not think that it means what you think it means.” (Since I know what yours and Brandon’s favorite movie is!)
Steve
… I am learning more and more that “I do not think that it means what you think it means.†… Brandon and I find ourselves saying that all the time these days LOL 
Steve,
About 7 years ago we had a pastor that said from the pulpit one Sunday night that he could not allow himself or his wife to get close to church members. He had been “burned” by a staff member a few years earlier and as a result he basically trusted nobody. How sad. I remember trying to encourage him one day with a quick phone call only to be reprimanded for “sucking up to the pastor” as he put it…and this was from the pulpit too…He didn’t use my name, but the message was very clear. I remember he used to always say, “Hurt people hurt others…” That’s a true statement..unfortunately. (I had to say it!)
I will continue to build relationships with people that I minister to and with. Sometimes you get hurt, but sometimes you make life long friends. The life long friends are worth the risk. Great post, I’m off to read your bride’s blog!
Be blessed…
Brandon
Steve, this is a good post, as is Christy’s. Growing up in the church as we did, I often heard the same advice.
Not knowing any better, when I was first called as pastor of a church, I tried to follow that advice. I came to a quick and painful realization that that approach is un-Christlike and doomed for failure.
As several commentors have already stated, you do indeed risk getting hurt by getting close to your fellow church members, but it is a risk that we must take if we are to be successful disciple-makers.
Jesus, Himself, took that risk and look what it cost Him, but look at what it accomplished.
Gordon, you took the words right out of my mouth! I was going to make the same observation about Jesus taking those risks and getting hurt. Thanks for making that point so well!
Brandon, yes, I agree that the risks are worth it. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
Philip, thanks for your comment. I’m sorry I didn’t respond sooner. I started working my way through the comments backwards and got pulled away before responding to yours.
Thanks, as well, for your testimony of how going against the advice given to your wife resulted in a positive relationship!
It’s really a sad statement that “leaders” can’t get close to those they’re leading. I have a very dear friend who used to be a associate pastor. He has on a number of occasions told me that he too has experienced the same type of situation. Certainly as others have pointed out, it’s not what Jesus modelled for us. Not only is it bad relationally for the leader-follower (oooh that sounds kinda bad) relationship but I’m sure it may well be a major contributing factor to the failure and falling of so many church leaders in recent years. Just imagine if those leaders had been surrounded by a community of people, family, who were there lifting them up, being involved making them accountable, etc. What a difference it would make.
Christy’s article is quite good, I see why you’re so proud of her!
Have a blessed Ressurrection Day!
In Him,
-marty
marty, yep, my wife is pretty awesome. I love her very, very much!!
I agree with you about the failure of leaders possibly being enabled by this lack of good strong relationships between leaders and the rest of the body.
In recent months, I have been thinking about how Peter said to “shepherd the flock among you”. In fact, just recently, I was in a brief discussion (in the comments of this post)with my good friend Tony Sisk about the idea of preaching “from the floor” so as to remind ourselves and the listener that when it all comes down to it, the speaker is “one of them”.
My heart breaks for pastors who feel like they can’t have good relationships — open, vulnerable, transparent relationships — with people in their church. Fear of getting hurt, possibly even fear of losing their job if something is found out…I’m not sure what always drives it. But it can’t be healthy!
Great post Steve,
We have some things in common. Right now I’m a part time pastor and full time software engineer (that’s why I’ll need to disappear from conversations on this blog on weekends). I was taught the same stuff about getting close to those in your congregation when I was in seminary. Fortunately (note the other word sometimes fits, Heather) that wasn’t the only voice. I was asked to leave a church several years ago, in part because my way of leading did not match the expectations of many in the congregation. There is a sort of two way street here in that some of the expectations that are held for pastors would require a distant relationship. If a pastor is thought to be a pastor because he’s so much better at being a Christian than the rest of us (a model of success, if you will) then he’ll need to get very good at hiding himself if he wants to meet those expectations.
It may be, however, that the question of whether or not to be open is not the best question. A pastor is called to be a servant. So an important question is does my being more open to a member of the congregation serve that member? Sometimes it doesn’t. I’ve learned this the hard way. Jesus, in his ministry, points to a balance that I’ve never been able to attain.
Steve,
I try just to be a regular person. I don’t try to “manage” things like that. I can’t see Jesus worrying about how close he is getting to Peter or Matthew.
Rod
Craig, ahhh, another computer guy!
Fun stuff.
So an important question is does my being more open to a member of the congregation serve that member? Sometimes it doesn’t.
Would you mind giving an example? (It can be fictional) I’m not sure I’m quite following.
Rod, You said that very well. I think the “regular person” idea can really help in living out life in Christ by example. If people perceive that we’re something other than they are, they won’t know that they can follow our example.
Now that you ask, I think I need to think about this some more. The sort of examples I had in mind are times where my effectiveness as a leader is undermined by openness. If the person I’m serving needs me as a leader then his or her need for a leader may conflict with my need for intimacy. It seems to me that Jesus would keep himself very hidden at times. I’ll have to work on making this more concrete.
Perhaps the clearest example would be a weaker brother situation where being open about my liberties may cause stumbling. A related example might be a case where, because of the weakness or immaturity of a brother or sister, my being open would actually not serve transparency and intimacy because it would be misunderstood. Perhaps a brother needs some financial aid. He comes to me for help, because he believes I’m wealthy (assuming I’m not). I may choose to hide my own financial struggles so that he might more freely accept from me a gift. If I judge that my revealing myself will harm the person I’m trying to serve, I may chose to be more hidden. The point is not so much that I should not be open in such cases, but only that my openness should take into consideration the needs of others and not simply my own needs. Sometimes, God calls us to lonely places.
Craig, I think that your points are worth considering here.
I think that we might be talking about a different category, however. I’ll give it some more thought, but I think there’s a difference between being open in the sense of sharing everything that’s on our mind, flaunting freedoms, etc., and being “real” with people.
I think it’s the latter that most of us have had in mind in this conversation. The idea of not ever showing weakness, or not ever letting people see that you can identify with them.
But your thoughts are definitely valid on this. Thanks for the continued input.
So what kind of software engineering do you do? You can email me privately, if you’d rather do that, than talk about it here. My email link is in the sidebar under “My Other Sites”
Steve,
It may help us think about this more clearly if I describe how I thought through the original post. We both received the bad advice in seminary and in the ministry that church leaders should not try to get close to members of the congregation (as if we’re not members). Though the advice is clearly not sound, in my case, it came from people that I hold in high regard. This made me ask, “Why would someone believe such a thing?†It seemed to me (and this is where you and I may have gone down different paths) that the reason was not a fear of being hurt or betrayed because I know some of these men to be both humble and sincere in their desire to serve our Lord. So I thought perhaps there are times when not getting close is the better course if it’s done not for self centered reasons but for the sake of those being served. Love normally requires great openness and transparency, but perhaps there are times when love requires distance. It would be these cases that would seduce one into believing the bad advice. Sort of like a father who gets so accustomed to being a father that he finds it difficult to be a brother when his son becomes an adult.
I was pretty sure I was on to something until you asked for examples. When I struggled to come up with simple examples I realized that I wasn’t hitting the mark on this one.
As far as the kind of software I do, I work for a fairly small company that writes a product to manage groups of computers. Our customers are, for the most part, MSPs (how’s that for a little bit of alphabet soup?)