Comments on: Ex-Pastors Gone Wild http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/ Random discussions about various topics, with an emphasis on simple church and other out-of-the-box thoughts. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:11:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1 By: ded http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8491 ded Sun, 26 Aug 2007 11:06:12 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8491 American Christians in the limelight are, I would like to think anyway, not representative of the every day variety, holding to Jesus through the day to day, learning a deeper walk with Christ. Yet examples of failure among the limelight crowd get even more attention than their positive exploits do. Americans have entered and enjoyed a long period of prosperity (abounding) and while some Christians manage wealth admirably and provide income for many beautiful works, many others have demonstrated a definite propensity to personal excess. Doesn't love of mammon figure in the warning about ship-wrecking one's faith? These folks appear to have chosen to identify with their incomes rather than Jesus. Yet but for the grace of God go we all. I know I am susceptible by how I sometimes find myself desiring things like the 1960 convertible Buick Invicta I saw yesterday. (It was nice looking to put it mildly.) I admired it fairly sincerely and contemplated the cost of ownership. In a reckless way, the fantasy popped in my head to take it for a spin. The top was down and the key was in it! Why would I do such thing? Because I am a human who was nurtured and matured in a 20th century, US context. I "relate" to my natural circumstances on a personal level of understanding. It is a decision on my part to not view my relationship to the natural world as my identity. I trust the circumstances in which brother Haggard finds himself will reveal the opportunity to get on with the work Jesus is doing in his soul. Whether or not he finds more of Jesus will, like us all, be a function of the choices he makes. He will come to no harm. As I know in my own experience with Jesus, "harm" which is the consequence of my sin is no harm at all. It is a spiritual benefit. American Christians in the limelight are, I would like to think anyway, not representative of the every day variety, holding to Jesus through the day to day, learning a deeper walk with Christ. Yet examples of failure among the limelight crowd get even more attention than their positive exploits do.

Americans have entered and enjoyed a long period of prosperity (abounding) and while some Christians manage wealth admirably and provide income for many beautiful works, many others have demonstrated a definite propensity to personal excess. Doesn’t love of mammon figure in the warning about ship-wrecking one’s faith?

These folks appear to have chosen to identify with their incomes rather than Jesus. Yet but for the grace of God go we all. I know I am susceptible by how I sometimes find myself desiring things like the 1960 convertible Buick Invicta I saw yesterday. (It was nice looking to put it mildly.) I admired it fairly sincerely and contemplated the cost of ownership. In a reckless way, the fantasy popped in my head to take it for a spin. The top was down and the key was in it! Why would I do such thing? Because I am a human who was nurtured and matured in a 20th century, US context. I “relate” to my natural circumstances on a personal level of understanding. It is a decision on my part to not view my relationship to the natural world as my identity.

I trust the circumstances in which brother Haggard finds himself will reveal the opportunity to get on with the work Jesus is doing in his soul. Whether or not he finds more of Jesus will, like us all, be a function of the choices he makes. He will come to no harm. As I know in my own experience with Jesus, “harm” which is the consequence of my sin is no harm at all. It is a spiritual benefit.

]]> By: Spunky http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8495 Spunky Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:12:54 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8495 I heard McDonald's in Montana is hiring for $10/hour. I think working and living among the commoners for a while would do Mr. Haggard a whole lot of good. I heard McDonald’s in Montana is hiring for $10/hour. I think working and living among the commoners for a while would do Mr. Haggard a whole lot of good.

]]> By: Phil Hawkins http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8497 Phil Hawkins Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:15:54 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8497 The August issue of Next Wave e-zine has a book excerpt from "Divine Nobodies" which relates some of the experiences of a young up-and-coming pastor who lost his position after a divorce and had to earn a living in the regular job market--construction, fast food, retailing. He seems to have learned a new appreciation for the lives the rest of us lead. (Sorry, I can't link it--I have trouble with that on a good day but right now our Windows PC is dead and I'm writing this on an iBook borrowed from my son--no mouse and funky keyboard, i brushed a wrong button once already and lost my whole comment--if you want to read the article just google "the-next-wave"--I think it's a ".org" but I'm not sure, and I'm really not sure I can leave this page to go check and get back here on this rig. Speaking just for myself, as one who has raised and home-schooled 3 kids on a income that seldom got over $25,000 (often less, a few years a lot less) I have to admit I find it difficult to have too much sympathy for Mr. Haggard's present difficulty. Part of me would love to have to scrape by on such resources! I guess the kindest thing I can say about this is that at least God isn't done with him yet. (when God gives up on you then you're really in trouble.) Maybe he will learn what God has for him in the next few years. I'm going to close this before I lose it again (just lost 3 words and I don't even know why!) Phil The August issue of Next Wave e-zine has a book excerpt from “Divine Nobodies” which relates some of the experiences of a young up-and-coming pastor who lost his position after a divorce and had to earn a living in the regular job market–construction, fast food, retailing. He seems to have learned a new appreciation for the lives the rest of us lead. (Sorry, I can’t link it–I have trouble with that on a good day but right now our Windows PC is dead and I’m writing this on an iBook borrowed from my son–no mouse and funky keyboard, i brushed a wrong button once already and lost my whole comment–if you want to read the article just google “the-next-wave”–I think it’s a “.org” but I’m not sure, and I’m really not sure I can leave this page to go check and get back here on this rig.

Speaking just for myself, as one who has raised and home-schooled 3 kids on a income that seldom got over $25,000 (often less, a few years a lot less) I have to admit I find it difficult to have too much sympathy for Mr. Haggard’s present difficulty. Part of me would love to have to scrape by on such resources!

I guess the kindest thing I can say about this is that at least God isn’t done with him yet. (when God gives up on you then you’re really in trouble.) Maybe he will learn what God has for him in the next few years.

I’m going to close this before I lose it again (just lost 3 words and I don’t even know why!)

Phil

]]> By: Kansas Bob http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8514 Kansas Bob Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:24:52 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8514 I like your title better than mine :) I like your title better than mine :)

]]> By: Kat http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8562 Kat Tue, 28 Aug 2007 02:55:38 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8562 Steve- Cheesy behavior begs for a cheesy title :) I read Kansas Bob's title (& take on the subject) and thought it pointed to a bigger problem: clergy entitlement. I've seen "clergy" strong-arming discounts out of hotels and service businesses, too, based on the fact that it is a ministry event. The whole thing of special privilege is just so "NOT Jesus". (which leads to a whole new discussion about the rest of us... Do we use the same tactics with God?) Lots to think about here--Thanks for stirring things up. Kat Steve-
Cheesy behavior begs for a cheesy title :)
I read Kansas Bob’s title (& take on the subject) and thought it pointed to a bigger problem: clergy entitlement. I’ve seen “clergy” strong-arming discounts out of hotels and service businesses, too, based on the fact that it is a ministry event. The whole thing of special privilege is just so “NOT Jesus”. (which leads to a whole new discussion about the rest of us… Do we use the same tactics with God?)
Lots to think about here–Thanks for stirring things up.
Kat

]]> By: Steve Sensenig http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8579 Steve Sensenig Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:25:11 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8579 <strong>Kat</strong>, you bring up some good issues (with the tip of the hat again to Kansas Bob). You know, I never really understood the whole "WWJD" thing as a fad (since I'm not sure that what Jesus "would do" is, or ever was, popular), but the question really is a decent one. What <strong>would</strong> Jesus do in situations in which we find ourselves? We have his Spirit within us to answer that question, so there's not much mystery to it. But the willingness to even ask the question, let alone listen for the answer, is a necessary one, I believe. True story, to my shame: In my first "real" pastoral position, I went to the hospital to visit one of our members. This hospital had two parking spaces reserved for clergy. When I got there, both of them were taken. But I noticed that one of the cars didn't have a permit displayed for clergy parking. I found myself very irritated at the owner of that car, because <strong>I</strong> couldn't have the parking space that <strong>I</strong> was "entitled" to. It's not hard to see how wrong that is. Philippians 2 keeps running through my mind in regard to situations like that. I hesitate to make a complete blanket statement, but I am leaning toward stating, without qualification: Whenever any of us in the body of Christ think about asserting our "rights" within the body of Christ, we are already on the wrong track. Kat, you bring up some good issues (with the tip of the hat again to Kansas Bob).

You know, I never really understood the whole “WWJD” thing as a fad (since I’m not sure that what Jesus “would do” is, or ever was, popular), but the question really is a decent one. What would Jesus do in situations in which we find ourselves? We have his Spirit within us to answer that question, so there’s not much mystery to it. But the willingness to even ask the question, let alone listen for the answer, is a necessary one, I believe.

True story, to my shame: In my first “real” pastoral position, I went to the hospital to visit one of our members. This hospital had two parking spaces reserved for clergy.

When I got there, both of them were taken. But I noticed that one of the cars didn’t have a permit displayed for clergy parking.

I found myself very irritated at the owner of that car, because I couldn’t have the parking space that I was “entitled” to.

It’s not hard to see how wrong that is. Philippians 2 keeps running through my mind in regard to situations like that.

I hesitate to make a complete blanket statement, but I am leaning toward stating, without qualification: Whenever any of us in the body of Christ think about asserting our “rights” within the body of Christ, we are already on the wrong track.

]]> By: Josiah http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8594 Josiah Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:39:09 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8594 My wife was in Africa living in an orphanage. The director of the orphange knew she had a good amount of money entrusted to her by some churches. But when the orphange went into crisis and ran out of food he did not tell her. Rather he went to the Lord in prayer. "Circumstances" lead her to buy a large quantity of food that very day. Only after arriving with all the food did he begin to praise God and tell her the orphanage had run out of food. The contrast is between this brother and Mr. Haggard is striking and it reveals that it is better to trust in God than princes. My wife was in Africa living in an orphanage. The director of the orphange knew she had a good amount of money entrusted to her by some churches. But when the orphange went into crisis and ran out of food he did not tell her. Rather he went to the Lord in prayer. “Circumstances” lead her to buy a large quantity of food that very day. Only after arriving with all the food did he begin to praise God and tell her the orphanage had run out of food. The contrast is between this brother and Mr. Haggard is striking and it reveals that it is better to trust in God than princes.

]]> By: Steve Sensenig http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8597 Steve Sensenig Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:44:53 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8597 <strong>Josiah</strong>, I remember her telling us that story when she returned. What an amazing story of God's provision and the faith of someone who wasn't willing to directly impose on someone that he thought could provide, preferring instead to take it to the Someone who can and <strong>will</strong> provide! Josiah, I remember her telling us that story when she returned. What an amazing story of God’s provision and the faith of someone who wasn’t willing to directly impose on someone that he thought could provide, preferring instead to take it to the Someone who can and will provide!

]]> By: Eric Holcombe http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8603 Eric Holcombe Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:37:04 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8603 <i>"...an $85,000 bonus (?!?!)"</i> Maybe it was a sales....uh I mean conversion-based commission? ;) “…an $85,000 bonus (?!?!)”

Maybe it was a sales….uh I mean conversion-based commission? ;)

]]> By: Mike Ross http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8642 Mike Ross Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:19:10 +0000 http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2007/08/26/ex-pastors-gone-wild/#comment-8642 So many smarmy comments, so little time. So many smarmy comments, so little time.

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