still don’t have time to write any of the substantive posts that are in my mind, but I must link to a post over at Emerging Grace called Embodiment. It deals with some little-heard aspects of incarnational living that I think we all would do well to meditate on and mull over. There is much about Christ in us that we don’t seem to understand, even though the very scriptures that so many hold so dear talk plainly about it! Grace includes some passages of scripture that have been really stirring around in me for about a year or so. So, go read it while you continue to wait for me to get my blogging act together!
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Thanks for linking to this post. I have been thinking a lot about this subject lately, and it was great to read the relevant scriptures. It is actually a pretty phenomenal truth, incarnational Christianity. And it is costly (anything of real value is, right?). But I guess the only way to abundant life (and incarnational life) is through the small gate (Mt.7:14).
You mentioned to Grace that you were surprised that there were so few responses. I find myself not surprised. I am coming to understand that many Christians are concerned about issues that are fully rooted in attempting to control, express, and understand the material world around them from a “Christian world view” and in so doing are oblivious to the reality of the spiritual state of being a person in Christ.
David, you’ve got a great point there. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. But I’m still sad to see it that way.
Sarah, Yes, it is a phenomenal truth. I still marvel at Peter’s use of the phrase “partake of the divine nature”. Do we have any clue what that really means? I’m sure it is much bigger than anything we have made it to be.
Steve,
Thank you for the link. People typically don’t comment much on posts that are mostly quotes and scripture because I think there is less personal content to interact with.
Since I didn’t write most of it, I think that I can say that it really is a combination of some powerful thoughts and ideas. I put them together because I personally hope to absorb and understand more about embodiment and incarnational living.
As far as importance, it should be at the top of the page on my blog, but alas, I’ve moved on to more trivial and controversial matters.
I look forward to reading your thoughts about this also when you have time to put them down.
Blessings to you!
I enjoyed this post and found it challenging. I am still mulling over some of the terminology that is current in the missional concept, but I found the desire of Grace and those she quoted to be Christ-like very inspiring.
grace, I guess that makes sense about people not commenting so much on quoted material. But those passages of scripture get me so excited that I can’t understand why others would just look at it and move on!
Gordon, I’m still very unsure of myself when it comes to the “terminology that is current in the missional concept”. Part of me does not like the fact that “missional”, or even “incarnational” are becoming such buzzwords. But, the concepts still really intrigue me, and they have a sense of “rightness” to them — as in, they seem to resonate with the Spirit within me.
Yeah, it’s the “incarnational” thing that I’m still chewing on. I don’t have a problem with the way that Grace and those she quoted defined it (in fact, I rather liked it), but I’m not sure that everyone will adhere to that definition. If they don’t, it could open up a big can of theological worms.
Maybe you and I should try to coin a new term, huh?
BTW, if you get a chance, give me a call tomorrow. I think you may have a better chance of catching me than I will of catching you. You seem to be a man in demand these days.
Gordon, I should be able to call you in the morning. I was just thinking this afternoon about how I dropped the ball in our game of phone tag.
Dare I ask which theological worms you think would result from various forms of “incarnational”? I’m actually quite curious what you’re thinking there.
I dunno, the way that the term “incarnation” has been traditionally used, it has a connotation of deity with it. It has always been used (at least in my limited experience) to describe the act of Jesus becoming flesh.
I just don’t know that I am comfortable, yet, with the term being applied to Christ working through us. I think there is a difference between God becoming flesh and God indwelling flesh. It seems as if it might be possible (and again, I am in no way implying that Grace did this) for some to take this term and turn it into the deification of believers.
Maybe I’m off base here and not fully understanding the meaning of the word. This is still a relatively new term and as I said, I’m mulling it over.
Steve and Gordon,
I am still mulling also. I believe within charismatic circles this has possibly been taken to an extreme in “sons of God” teaching.
However, I am also convinced that there is a supernatural spiritual substance that is often unacknowledged as a reality in the life of a believer. Our transformed life is more than just a set of beliefs, but rather a divine transformation of our spiritual nature.
To be clear, I am in no way saying that this approaches deification. I think it is good to wrestle through the definitions and meanings of the words. What do we call this empowerment – the life of Christ within, the filling of the Holy Spirit, incarnation, perhaps grace, God’s empowerment in our lives, or maybe all of the above?
I’m no expert, just a believer trying to work out what it means to live in the reality of the kingdom of God.
I too am no expert. I had to look up “sons of God” teaching because I’m not familiar with stuff like that. So forgive my uneducated commentary… But I like what Grace said, “I am convinced that there is a supernatural spiritual substance… more than just a set of beliefs, but rather a divine transformation of our spiritual nature.” With Grace and Gordon, I also reject any deification of man.
I was also pondering the traditional concept of “incarnation” that Gordon mentioned (the act of Jesus becoming flesh). First, let me say that I believe Jesus is Deity. But is it possible that He chose to lay aside His deity in order to live as the second Adam and fulfill our part of the covenant for us (in total obediance to the law)? If He didn’t fulfill the law as man, but as God – then isn’t that cheating? Maybe I’m wrong, but that seems to be the case since Satan tried to tempt Him out of it (as did the Pharisees when He was on the cross: “If you’re the Son of God, save yourself!”).
I thought about what Jesus said, “Apart from the Father, I can do NOTHING.” That sounds like Jesus living as a man in right relationship with God, rather than Jesus speaking as Deity.
We all agree that Jesus is our ultimate example of how to live in right relationship with God. But if He did so AS GOD, then that is an impossible example for me to follow because I will never be God! But if Jesus was living in union with the Father, only empowered by the Father… and now because of the cross, we have access to that same empowerment…
If I abide in Jesus, and He abides in me (emerging use of the term “incarnational”), then perhaps I am modelling after Jesus’s example of abiding in the Father and the Father in Him (traditional use of the term “incarnation”). Isn’t that what Jesus commanded us to do in John 15?
Again, I want to re-iterate that I don’t believe that we can attain a state of deity, nor would we want to (because this is a narcissistic goal). And Jesus is fully Deity, but emptied Himself to become servant of all (the total opposite of narcissism). The above are some questions that I’m really pondering here… and I’m open to correction or other points of view.
To be clear, I am in no way saying that this approaches deification.
Grace your article was very clear on this. I did not sense at all that you were suggesting this. Your article projected a strong desire for Christ to be seen in the lives of believers. That is something that I value highly.
I guess my skepticism arises from the fact that in our time it often seems that some are using the same vocabulary with a different dictionary. I would agree with you that there is a spiritual substance in our transformed nature. I would suggest that this transformation is a regeneration of our nature that allows the Spirit of Christ to be manifested through us. We become the light fixtures through which His light shines, so to speak.
This is why I express reservations at the term. Again, though, let me say. My exposure to the usage of the word in this way is very recent, so I am still exploring this concept.
I appreciate your heart for glorifying Christ in your life.
I sure do enjoy the converstaion on this here blog.
yup. sho ’nuff.