Miracles — Primarily First Century?
December 10th, 2007 by Steve Sensenig
n response to my “You Might Be Misrepresenting God” post, Scott Roche and I have been engaged in what is turning out to be the continuation (no pun intended, Scott!) of an unfinished conversation from earlier in the fall.
Scott’s a good online friend, and I appreciate the engagement with him anytime it presents itself. We differ on some interpretations of scripture (who doesn’t?!), but I never feel like Scott is questioning our fellowship as brothers. For that, I am very appreciative. (And Scott, we need to hit up Starbucks in Winston together sometime soon, bro. I’d love to chat about stuff in person with you.)
So anyway, Scott responded on his blog about miracles. You can read the post, simply called “Miracles”, here.
I started to respond on Scott’s blog, but as often happens with me, my comment became quite lengthy, and I decided to put it here as a post instead of taking up Scott’s bandwidth with it.
Scott mentioned a great statement of Jesus as part of the discussion, and then offered his commentary:
Christ said “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.” Does that mean that next week I can raise someone from the dead? No, I don’t think so. What I think it means is that this week I can talk to people about my faith. It means that I can love the people in my community sacrificially. What does he mean by “greater works”? Frankly, I don’t know. I think that greater might mean greater in scope. We have the opportunity to take the message of God’s love into places unheard of in Jesus’ time. I’m more than willing to admit that I could be wrong though. If you are hardcore one way or the other I’d be curious as to know why.
In response to some of the things that were said in the post, I’d like to address the “greater things” part first. I don’t necessarily consider myself “hard core one way or the other” on what the “greater things” are, but I’ll try to give my thoughts.
While I have no trouble saying that the “greater things” are not explicitly stated (and therefore subject to some interpretation at least), we still need to wrestle with the fact that Jesus didn’t just say we would do “greater things”. He first said that we would do the same things he was doing. Regardless of what the “greater things” might be, are we doing the same things that Jesus did?
Take a look at the examples in the book of Acts. The disciples, in fact, did do the same things Jesus was doing. They healed the sick, raised the dead, etc. Furthermore, when Paul talks about spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians, he includes healing and miracles as two gifts that the Spirit gives to the body.
I’m not as troubled by the argument from silence on the cessationist side as I am the inability to adequately explain away the stuff that’s not silent. And “troubled” is not actually a good word. It just doesn’t make sense to me, I guess.
How did Jesus heal people? And how did his disciples heal people?
- The people receiving the miracle believed it was possible, and
- The person facilitating the miracle (or at times, someone on their behalf) believed it was possible. That seems to be an incredibly common factor throughout. Enough of a factor that I don’t think we can dismiss it too easily.
Scott also said:
I don’t think that we’re seeing fewer miracles today because of the state of faith in our world. Miracles are by definition rare things.
If scripture draws a strong parallel between the state of faith (either in individuals or in a region) and miracles (and I believe it does), should that not be taken into consideration? On what basis, then, do you think that doesn’t apply? Furthermore, when the kingdom was proclaimed by Jesus, were they really “rare” things? Does scripture itself define miracles as “rare”?
So to have this thing occupy a major portion of your theology and to go around in circles looking for support one way or another is indeed wasting cycles, if that’s all you’re doing.
I hope you can understand at this point that it’s not occupying “a major portion” of my theology, but rather I’m trying to assess what place it should. So I don’t see it as wasting cycles at all.
My point and repeated question basically come down to this: We see Jesus doing miracles as part of his gospel proclamation. Jesus tells us that those who believe in him will do the same things he did, and even greater things. The disciples go on to do the same things Jesus did, and even greater things (in terms of scope, for certain). So, if we are not to expect to do the same things, on what basis do we draw that conclusion?
Here’s a poor analogy: There is a light switch that I always use to turn on our dining room light. If I flip the switch one day and the light doesn’t come on, I can either conclude that the switch no longer is intended to operate that light, or I can conclude that something is not working properly and needs to be corrected for the switch to operate the light again. In a very basic way, the cessationist position seems to be saying that the switch is no longer intended to operate the light, whereas the continualist position is saying that the intent is still there, but something is not working properly.
Thoughts from Scott or anyone else?
Until next time,
steve 
Posted in Scripture Interpretation, Doctrine, American Christianity | 
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Okay, I’ve already said, in a comment on a previous post, that I’m not a cessationist. I maybe should have put it that I’m no longer a cessationist. And I ceased to be one because I ran across some contrary evidence.
1. Some of my classmates in Bible college (1968-72) were children of American missionaries in foreign countries. A few of them had some hair-raising stories about things they knew their parents had done, especially casting out demons. The parents had tried to keep the kids away, but they figured out what was going on.
2. During my college years I picked up a little used paperback from the 1950s published by Moody Press called “Demon Experiences in Many Lands.” It was a collection of short reports from (mostly) American missionaries in other countries, dealing with casting out evil spirits. In the late ’70s, because the elders in the church we were attending had gotten into “deliverance ministry” (i.e., casting out demons), I pulled it out of the bookshelf and read it again. This time through I noticed something that didn’t register the first time. I showed it to my wife and she confirmed, this particular report was written by her great-aunt–she and her husband had been Baptist missionaries in India during the 1930s and ’40s.
While Christians in the US have been arguing over whether miracles are for today or not, American missionaries in Africa, Asia, and Latin America have been quietly performing miracles for over 70 years that I know of. And this isn’t just Pentacostals and Charismatics–it’s Baptists, Christian Church/Church of Christ, and other conservative evangelicals (whose home churches would have freaked out if they had known).
One problem with the cessationist view is that it rests on an implicit assumption that just because we don’t see it now where we are, it must not be happening anywhere else at any time. Because of what has been happening in other countries for most of the last century at least, and even in this country for the last 30-40 years, that assumption is getting shakier and shakier.
The miraculous has never really stopped. Miraculous healings are all around us, if we open up our eyes and ears. At least, I’ve seen quite a few, although, I’ve never facilitated one myself. When one reads about the history of Christianity, one finds all sorts of examples of miracles: healing, peaceful endurance of suffering, levitation, bilocation, visions/appearances of angels and holy dead folks, battles being won against impossible odds, lamps that remained lit for days on end on a small amount of oil, dead people being raised as their bones touch the bones of a holy dead person, pieces of clothing from holy people being taken to the sick so they can touch them, animals that seem to listen and obey holy folk/God, the list could go on and on.
One mistake I’ve seen Christians make is to believe that God only uses other Christians for divine healing. I’ve read enough stories about healing in other religions to not dismiss it lightly. God uses all sorts of people to perform His miraculous work on earth, sometimes those we wouldn’t expect Him to.
Does it bother me that I personally don’t perform greater works than Jesus? Yes and no. While I would like to have that faith, I don’t know that I do. In some ways, I haven’t had the opportunity. In other ways, most of my prayers are directed toward God helping doctors and others. My oldest spent the first couple weeks of his life in ICU. He had the worst meconium aspiration the attending nurse had ever seen. The medical team had lost a baby to that problem two weeks prior and had just completed retraining on how to treat that problem before my son was delivered. He still was in pretty bad shape and was transfered to Children’s Hospital. Yet, people prayed for him around the clock, remembering him at mass and in their daily prayers. He pulled his breathing tube out himself a couple days after being transferred to Children’s and made a recovery that the doctors found to be quite impressive. Personally, I attribute that to the prayers of God’s church, but there was no identifiable singular moment that I know of where he was all of a sudden better. It was much more impressive that my mom’s breast cancer was healed right before surgery, but I was too young to remember that myself.
For me, an even more critical question than do I personally perform the miracles that Jesus did is how I would have reacted if God had allowed my son to die. Would I have said like Job, “Though He will slay me, yet will I praise him.” (that’s from memory, so feel free to correct it). Paul certainly was a healer, yet he himself suffered from his infamous thorn in the flesh and was known to have eyesight problems, possibly from malaria. Sometimes, God’s providence gives us gifts we don’t want. It’s easy to praise God when all is going well. It’s more difficult to praise Him when it isn’t, and is (in my opinion) a more critical test of faith.
MB
Steve,
Greetings, bro! It has been a while since I commented of any substance out here. I guess that is assuming a lot; not the not commenting part but the part about my comments having substance.
I think we can bring to bear the argument about “authentication of the message” here. I know it is the go-to argument for cessationsists, which to be clear I am not a cessationist but take a “cautious but open” position. I know you are familiar with the argument, but for the sake of clarity, the “authentication” argument says that the miracles were part and parcel of the Gospel message only while Jesus was on earth so as to give additional credence to His message.
Since we have a full revelation (closed canon) therefore miracles have ceased; they are no longer necessary to authenticate the message. I tend to disagree here.
Miracles of NT caliber still happen and I believe they still happen in parts of the world where the Gospel is much less prolific, such as the 10/40 window. Therefore they work in such a way in places like that to authenticate the message.
There is a confluence here with Matthew’s statement that Jesus could not “do many miracles there [Nazareth] because of their unbelief” (14:58). This is tip-toeing dangerously close to Word-Faith teachings, that God is obligated to respond based on the level of faith someone exercises. (Pinto faith, you get a Pinto, Lexus faith, you get a Lexus). I am persuaded that miracles operate on a much broader scale in places where the Gospel has made fewer inroads.
My final point and it ties in with the reference to Matthew, is our level of anticipation and expectation. In Acts 12, Rhoda was surprised when Peter showed up at the door though they had all been gathered praying for his deliverance. I think it is precisely when we are least expecting it that God responds miraculously. This is concordant with the definition of a miracle, because in no way should we get any of the glory for a miracle worked; we might be tempted to say something, and I’ve heard it, “Well, I prayed for that miracle!” as if God follows a “lather, rinse, repeat” pattern.
Not to belabor the point, but Jesus did walk on the water in the fourth watch when the disciples were in peril of the storm, meaning they had been straining against the oars practically all night. It was then when Jesus responded miraculously. We shouldn’t seek a miracle for miracle’s sake but that God might be glorified.
OK, how does that answer your question, So, if we are not to expect to do the same things, on what basis do we draw that conclusion? I don’t think there is a basis to draw it as long as we temper our faith with a “but if not” mentality, that God answers based on His good pleasure and not ours. It was certainly God’s good pleasure to heal all during Jesus’ ministry; but He didn’t. It is certainly God’s good pleasure that all get saved, but alas, all will not.
Hope this rambling mess makes sense.
My own view is that miracles are a faith issue. Emotions or feelings do not move God. Faith moves God. The Word tells us that without faith it is impossible to please God and whatever is not of faith is sin.
We know that Jesus pleased the Father fully and was without sin. So, how is it that Jesus was able to walk on water?
He tells us that we can do what He did and greater things than these because He set the example of what can be done by faith.
“we need to hit up Starbucks in Winston together sometime soon, bro. I’d love to chat about stuff in person with you”
Let’s make it http://www.krankiescoffee.com/ as they’re local and know their way around the magic bean.
No offense to anyone here, but I’d rather hear about the direct experience from “the horse’s mouth”. The friend of a friend or even relative of a friend stories are all well and good but I retain a healthy dose of skepticism when it comes to those things. That’s not to say I don’t believe they happened, but they lack a certain amount of authority. I’m not as sure as Tony is that miracles happen in the third world (though I’m open to the possibility). So what makes you certain that they’re happening?
“One problem with the cessationist view is that it rests on an implicit assumption that just because we don’t see it now where we are, it must not be happening anywhere else at any time.”
That assumption is a problem. So, should we travel to these places where miracles are happening so that we should see them? To be fair to the cessationists I do think that there’s a bit more to their view than “I haven’t seen it so it must not exist.” That’s certainly part of it. And you could say to them, “Well your faith or the faith of your church just isn’t strong enough then.” but I think you see the problem there.
I guess my question is, how many in any given group need to have faith for miracles to happen?
“In a very basic way, the cessationist position seems to be saying that the switch is no longer intended to operate the light, whereas the continualist position is saying that the intent is still there, but something is not working properly.”
I think that what the ceassationists are actually saying is “Who needs the light switch when there’s sunlight coming through the window?” I don’t think they believe that anything is “broken” or that God isn’t somehow able to perform miracles. It just that there isn’t a need (in their theology).
Steve,
Thanks for the spirit in which your article is written. Just a mish-mash of quick thoughts.
What is our EXPECTATION of “a miracle”? What will it look like?
A miracle is something which happens with no logical explanation. It is supernatural. It is not necessarily caused by God.
I have seen amazing,apparent miracles in the physical realm. I have heard a demon speak in a strong male voice through a small, delicate woman.
The greatest, and most prolific miracle I have ever witnessed is the conversion of men and women who are spiritually dead into spiritually alive to Christ.
Were these caused by my great faith, or that of someone else? NO!!
Any faith I have, or anyone else has is a gift according to God’s measure. No person can generate faith!
After 50 odd years of ministry,I still, and without any preconceived ideas, as William Carey said, “Attempt great things for God, expect great things of God”. It’s ALL of Him and none of me, just like when He saved me!.
I hold firmly to the view that the labels “continualist” and “cessationist” and eminently artificial and unnecessary terminology.
Blessings Brother.
Scott wanted some first-hand accounts. So, here goes. I was on a plane, and struck up a conversation with the guy next me. He told me that he had been a baseball pitcher, but had hurt his elbow and his shoulder and could no longer pitch. So now he was in sales, but really missed baseball. I told him that I was a Christian and if he let me pray for him, I believed God would heal his arm. He was very closed to talking about God, but open to prayer. So I prayed for him - just a simple “God please heal the injuries” or something. And he got this wide-eyed look, and he was kind of freaked out. He turned to me and said, “What’s happening to me? My elbow is burning up! What is that!? My shoulder’s all hot now too! What is happening to me?!” Seriously. He was totally wierded out. It makes me laugh thinking about it now. I told him, “That’s God. He’s healing you.” By this time, I could tell other passengers were starting to take notice and pay attention to our conversation. I told him, “God is healing you because He loves you and cares about you. He’s the kindest person I know.” (The last line was borrowed from Graham Cooke, but still true, nonetheless). For the remainder of the flight, he was asking me questions about God, or sitting deep in thought, trying to process what had just taken place. It was one of the funnest flights I’ve ever had!
I’ve watched a woman get up out of a wheelchair after a Christian painting contractor prayed for her. She had been paralyzed from a car accident years before. Saw it with my own eyes. She wept uncontrollably at God’s kindness. I cried too, actually - tears of joy for her, and joy that we serve such a wonderful God. Both of these were in North America.
For those who want eyewitness accounts, I recommend the book “John Wimber–The Way It Was.” It was written by Carol Wimber, his wife, after his death. Wimber was an “American pagan” who became a Christian as an adult, then became a reluctant charismatic, and later taught a class on “Signs and Wonders” at Fuller Theological Seminary that created quite a stir–because he didn’t just lecture about it, he tried to teach people to do it! He didn’t believe miracles were just something for the big-name preachers to do; his motto was “Everybody can play.” As far as results, his view was that his job was to pray for people; God would heal them–or not. That was His business. Wimber’s job was to pray for the people, and teach others to do so.
As for personal experiences, I’ve seen healings among people I knew (my wife was once healed of a condition as she walked by while someone else was being prayed for!) I’ve seen “words of knowledge”, including people at the Vineyard praying for me who started praying about things I hadn’t mentioned to them, and they had no way of knowing about.
There is another purpose besides “authenticating the message”–to glorify God. Look up what Jesus said to his disciples about the man born blind. And there were times when the Jews demanded Jesus “authenticate the message” by performing signs on the spot, and He refused.
Another problem–and a danger. For some who deny that miracles are also for today, the pressure remains to explain the apparent miracles happening around them. (I knew a man about 30 years ago who claimed he had never seen any cases of tongues that were not demonic in origin.) But when the Pharisees started muttering that Jesus was healing by the power of Satan, He responded by talking about the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Scott,
You said, I’m not as sure as Tony is that miracles happen in the third world (though I’m open to the possibility). So what makes you certain that they’re happening?
In Joanne Shetler’s book about her work with the Balangao people of the Philippine mountains, And the Word Came with Power, she relates several miracle stories. Plus, the anecdotal evidence from missionaries on the field seems to point that way.
I don’t have conclusive proof that they are happening in the third world; just a logical extrapolation, maybe not even a very good one.